Tuesday, December 08, 2009

Confusions of the Thinking Mind

Picture this. Year 2009. A couple who live by themselves. The husband, Mr Open Minded , 60 yrs old, closed his own business 5 years back.[He didnt have a choice about it and did what he had to in the give circumstances]. The wife, Ms Independent, 55 yrs , is working at a 9 to 6 job. they have a debt to clear n Ms independent intends on quitting her job once the loan has been taken care of. Mr Open-minded helps around the house. As needed he washes clothes (India style, on a washing stone; not by loading the washing machine!!), sweeps n mops the house, washes the front porch n draws a rangoli etc etc. Ms Independent does her share of house-work, cooking, cleaning dishes etc.

So what is your instant reaction to such a story? Do you want to pat the guy on the back and say New-age man and applaud him for throwing in a helping hand? For being broad-minded enough to agree and live this set-up?

Well.tho not completely, for a while..that was my reaction. I convinced myself that this is development n change n this is what we are heading to. But no more fooling myself,. Something , just something seems to be amiss with the set-up. It doesn’t paint the picture of a happy couple leading a happy life. I’m not sure if the husband should actually be called “Mr Open-minded”. Or the Wife “Ms Independent”. She is more like “Ms supporter” and he “Mr easy-way-out”

For starters I know the Ms Supporter is tired of working @ a 9-6 job. She has been doing this for the last 25 odd years. She needs a break. BUT if a debt must be cleared, then someone has got to work. n if its okay for a guy to work even when he doesn’t want to, why can’t the same hold true for a woman? N its not that Mr Easy-Way-Out has a job opportunity but won’t take it up. He doesn’t have any that are “appropriate”. And India is not yet matured to treat all jobs with the same dignity.

If I don’t feel sorry for a house wife (now known as home maker) who does the home tasks why should I feel sorry for a guy who is at home, who does the same? BUT it’s so hard for me to wrap my mind around the idea of a guy drawing a rangoli in front of the house at 6 am! There is something about it that doesn’t look as modern as it sounds.

So much for preaching the equality of men and women! Given my reactions, should I be branded as a hypocrite in this situation? Is it just me who has this kinda reaction? Can my resistance to this scenario be categorized under the “normal” general resistance to change and will I be able to look at the same situation in a positive manner few years down the line when it is more prevalent? Will such a scenario become more prevalent in the coming years?

What if I told you that now, Mr Easy-Way-Out has b’come used to Ms Supporter providing for them and so shows no inclination to contribute to the finances in any manner so that she can retire soon, like she wishes to? Even when Ms Supporter says that she wants to quit..he clearly says/shows his disagreement with the idea and prods her to continue working atleast part-time. That can’t be the right thing to do!?! But if both of them are done working, then what does the family do to provide for themselves?!

Sorry, I’ve raised a zillion questions in this post. But my mind feels very confused. It’s not able to come up with any solution. What do you feel about all this?

17 comments:

broca's area said...

i would not pat him but atleast appr the couple for their understanding...but ultimately i think[personal opinion] traditional way works better....

p.s-is this true?

Kiran said...

Pavi, I've said this before in a zillion posts about feminism (equalism rather); and I say it again: In some aspects, our "HE-works-SHE's-a-homemaker" setup is as unfair on HIM as it is on HER.

For example, I am working as a techie becaue of the money it provides; but my true passion lies elsewhere, in creative fields where the income may not be as stable or even guaranteed as it is in my techie job. Why shouldn't I be given the chance to have a go at the other fields? If I were to give up announce my intent that I may soon give up my job; will any girl (even a feminist) want to be in a relationship with me? Isn't it unfair that SHE has all the peach jobs in the creative fields while HE does only the skull-drudgery types of jobs?

I do think that your reaction comes close to hypocrisy - if we want women to be equal to men; we should give men the opportunity to get what they have been missing out on too. And come to think of it - what's wrong in a man wanting to be a home-maker? For all we know, he might be far better at it than her.

And even the "easy-way-out" theory is subjective. Are you implying that a home-maker's job is "easy"? I strongly disagree with that. Looking at home-makers around me, starting with my mom, it is without doubt the most demanding job.

And in case you din't litearlly mean "easy" - but that it's just a way out for him to avoid work - well, then my argument is - "If it is OK for HER; then why not for HIM"?

I startef off attempting to answer your questions - but ended up raising more of 'em :P

But to summarize my opinion - I think the scenario you have described is a positive sign; and I do hope that the we see more of these in the future since it signals true equalism (and not only feminism!).

What's more, I do hope that I find someone like Ms Independent ;)

harish said...

hmmm...it's one of those "bridge that is flooded" dilemmas...no right answer. But tell me this, you sure that what they speak out about the situation is true? I mean, inside, maybe they are really comfortable at this role reversal...(I am not asking if this is a true story...i am sure it is...)

rayshma said...

you know, i'm really rather orthodox when it comes to such things. i WANT my man to be the bread-winner. not the sole earner, but definitely one who works.

i don't frown on those who think otherwise, but that's the way it is with me. i, personally, would not be comfortable being the sole bread winner UNLESS the circumstances are inevitable.

Kiran said...

Hey Pavi, I had posted a (very) long comment yesterday - guess it din't go through (blogger has this issue occassionally when comment moderation is turned on). So let me try to re-state my opinion.

My instant reaction to this story is that it's a good thing. I think Mr. OpenMinded is - well being open-minded. So is his wife. I have participated in this debate zillions of times and always my question is the same: If "equalism" is what we are looking for, then why do we only look at it from HER point of view? (she should get equal opportunities etc). Why shouldn't HE also take up roles which were traditionally HER "domain"?

Then, it is not only a question of the guy being the bread-winner or about social pressure. What if the guy is good in some creative field? I am a techie - but in it only for the money. My real passion lies elsewhere; in fields where there is no stability or even guarantee of decent income. If I were to announce that I'l quit my job and try to establish myself in the other creative fields; will I find support - even from the so-called feminist or equalitist crowd? I doubt.

Also, you say that he may be taking the "Easy-Way-Out". What is that supposed to mean? If you were implying that being a homemaker is "easy" - then I stronlgy disagree with that. It is without doubt the most demanding job - thats what I conclude by having a look around at home-makers starting with my mom. On the other hand, if you were implying that he simply did not want to provide for himself or be independent - then my question is what's wrong with that? Men can be much better home-makers than some women. I know men who are good at gardening, cooking and even with the kids. Doesnt it then make sense for HIM to essay that role?

I am inclined to opine that your take seems to border on hypocrisy. If equality is what we are aiming for, then it has to be in both directions. If a woman loses respect for a man the moment she hcomes to know that he is a house-husband; then the woman has no right to demand equality of the sexes. But thats purely my personal opinion. Whats more, this is harmful for the feminist movement too, don't you think? Because if all men and women start working, who'l take care of the home. Further, this attitude is likely to result in stiffer resistance to more women taking up non-traditional roles.

I yearn for the world where the gender roles are not demarcated (except the reproductory aspects of course :D). It would be nice for HIM to have a change in environment once in a while; cut HIMself off from the so-called "earner" role (mind you I'm not saying "sole bread-winner" role - I'm just saying earner role), and get HISelf busy with home-making. I really hope that more women see the fairness of the so-called "stay-at-home dads" concept. (And I hope that I run into one such woman ;) )

Pavi!!!! said...

@ Broca: yes…initially even I was very appreciative of the understanding. But the issue is that now the wife doesn’t really want to work anymore. But has to. and he is not stepping up. THAT doesn’t deserve a pat on the back no?
Hmm..no. not true. It depends how u define traditional. I think xcessively modern or traditional is not practical or healthy. It’s a balance btw the 2 that we need

Pavi!!!! said...

@Harish: Of course it is a true story! Firstly I wldn’t call this a role reversal. It is not that completely. The woman yet cooks, does dishes etc. N it will be centuries before and IF “role –reversal” actually happens for more reasons than one. Mind-set is only one of the reasons. Practicality of that happening is another issue. Men can do ALMOST everything that women can do n vice versa..the keyword there being ALMOST. Anyway that’s another topic for another day.
Okay..for reasons that are very hard to explain here w/o giving an inkling of who I’m talking about …..i know for a fact that the woman wants to badly quit her job, But her husband doesn’t want her to.
@RayRay: I kinda u’stand where your coming from. I THINK I’m from the same school of thought

Pavi!!!! said...

@Kiran: I’m sorry..i donno wats the deal with blogger, sorry about that L and thanks much for making the time to leave behind what seems a v. well-thought-out comment .
Kiran several of the arguments u have stated ..did occur to me as well. Some of them..i have no answers for. but the more thot I give to it..i don’t think I wld have pondered over this AT ALL..if only..the lady painted a happy picture. But that’s not the case. The wife is unhappy..she wants to desperately quit her job. she is extremely tired of doing this routine of cook b’fast,lunch; work 9-6; come back n cook dinner; do dishes n sleep. She wants to be able to breathe, take a walk, etc. It has been several years since she enjoyed cooking. It has b’come a mundane task to her. She should be able to enjoy it all over again. N for that..she need’s her husband’s support. She needs him to step up n say.. “alrite..take a break n I will try bring in the money”.
So ya..the confusions came about ‘coz the woman is unhappy. This post would have sounded very different..if both of them were content with what they were doing.
See..as I pointed out to Harish..this is NOT role-reversal completely. She yet cooks, does dishes n a whole bunch of other errands at home. As far as I hv seen..when women are home-makers they do IT ALL . not partly. So NO..i don’t think home-makers have it the easy way out. And no, the husband cannot be called a home-maker in this case.The reason I say he chose the easy –way –out is now when he is tired..he is using his wife’s independence to his advantage and not offering any help in the areas where she does need them.
I am looking at this from both “HIS” n “HER” pov. Trust me. 25 years back..when this woman started working..it was not ‘coz she wanted to be a career-woman. It was ‘coz they needed more finance to manage a house of 5 people. So, she did step up. N now, mabbe it’s the guy’s turn? My issue is not so much about him doing the traditional “HER” tasks…as much as him not willing to earn anymore for the family.
N NO,I am definitely not against house husbands or have any less respect for them. Infact @ work I have a colleague whose husband takes care of kids(2 & 3 yr olds) all day long at home, n for that I bow down to him.’coz I know not very many men..specially Indian men will be willing to do that.
BUT YET..its not equality..’coz she takes care of the cooking n other tasks at home. See, that is reality. Men hardly ever take up the complete role of being a home-maker the way a woman does. N it will take a lot for that to change.
The current economy n life style demands for both the husband and wife to be working kiran. I won’t elaborate on this…’coz it’s a separate topic by itself. So neither partner can afford to quit their jobs.
Kiran ..we all yearn for equality. But it can be achieved only to a certain extent realistically. U know the very fact that the women only can reproduce..makes equality such a big challenge. Men n women can aspire to many things..but all said n done there will be some limitations on what each gender can do. That’s the way nature has designed it. N I would rather be practical n strive for that certain extent of equality that is achievable instead of dreaming about sumthing that will take eons to happen.
Ahah! I know sooooooo many men [the husband included] who are hoping to retire soon.. We women really do dig our own graves! LOL !

Shachi said...

I kinda agree with Rayshma on this. Even when men stay home, they will not do everything that a woman will do. So if the woman is the sole bread winner, it is added stress and responsibility on her...while the guy just gets by doing few things at home.

Also when women are during their child-bearing years and having 1-2-3 kids, it is like a roller-coaster ride to manage work, pregnancy, home, kids, etc....and on top of that if she is the only one supporting the family.....then she's doomed honestly.

I wonder, how can a man who loves his wife let her struggle and suffer and stress so much? does he really love her? or is it just a convenient relationship?

If I am the woman, I would probably not be with that person anymore.

Jack said...

Pavi,

Very thought provoking post. I will say that I relate to it so much. It is not just that one desires so but circumstances which count a lot. I am retired while my wife is still working and wants to till she too retires. I contribute from my pension and take on a lot of household chores as I am at home when cleaning person or milkman etc come. I do consultancy and go for meetings as & when required but there is no compulsion for either of us. Under such circumstances it becomes moral responsibility of each member of a family to contribute to running of house in whatever way possible. May be he is creative to make Rangoli and likes it but had no chance earlier due to his being busy in his work. And why should we say anything if they are happy with this.

Take care

PS : No visits and valuable views?

Satish Bolla said...

hmm, that looks complicated. i would rather appreciate that the guy does a part-time job too to support themselves and clear off the debt.

Pri said...

well call me from the old school, but i still think that the guy should be the breadwinner of the family..i mean nothing against women contributing--infact i respect the women who manage both home and career...but i would never be able to respect a man who would depend on his wife to run the family and agree to do the dishes and take care of the children..
uve nailed it down perfectly--he would be nothing but a 'MR EASY WAY OUT'

Sukanya said...

if he is sitting at home n not helping out n wants to live off of his wife's earning then its a no-no.

but if he's doin some job that he is qualified to do and cannot expect any better job, and coz of that has lot more time on his hands than his wife, who might be better qualified and thus has a more demanding job/ or is career oriented woman, and he helps out at home- cooks, takes kids to school etc.. thats actually 'Mr. Open Minded' n i don't think therz any thing wrong about it..

THOUGH.. the idea of guy putting rangoli at 6 a.m. is kinda ridiculous :-P

HAPPY NEW YEAR :-)

Ranjani said...

Hey Pavi, I didn't realize you started blogging again! This was very thought provoking, I'm not sure there's any right approach to this-but I have to say male or female contribution either monetary or non monetary is mandatory!
On a different note, I just posted you requested:)

Pavi!!!! said...

@sachi: i am with you as far as the men wont be able to do everything that women do thought.
But ..i wouldn't question if the guy "loved" his wife. People of that generation have a different definition of love.
n tho i dont feel comfy with the way that guy is handling their life situation..i dont agree with the wife shld leave him bit. I think our generation chooses to leave too easily. Anywez thats another topic for another day.

Pavi!!!! said...

@jack: sorry, i have been busy. will visit soon.
IF they are happy there is no problem.. but the wife is NOT HAPPY..i know for a fact !

@Satish : I KNOW!

@Pri: ya. sumhow its hard to accept it. n wat troubles me more abt this situation is that the guy wont work..even tho its really required of him!

Pavi!!!! said...

@knatch : Happy New Year to u too! how have u been?
its scenario 1.. n so hez Mr Easy-Way-out!

@Ranjani L i never stopped bloggin no?! i just dont blog that regularly!
i agree! such are times. any amt of money aint enough for a luxorious life!
n thanks:)